Mining/Ore/Blacksmithing Overhaul

JubbinJubbin Washington State
I do like that the idea that you can get work orders and get more recipes to craft new and cool gear/weaponry. However there are issues with how it works in-game.

You run into:
You get work orders that you can't even craft due to not having the recipe to make bars(Ingots)for said item you need to fill for the order. If it's random for the work order you get, resource wise, then that's cool, but I'd rather see the blacksmith give you your resource recipes like Copper, Bronze, Steel ect but whenever you're at the correct skill level for it.
For example You can only make iron, you grab a work order and the work order requires you to make 150 Iron maces.
Well by the time you finish those 150 maces, your blacksmithing is high enough to to work on copper and with your luck, you don't have the copper recipe and you now get work orders that require you to make steel lol... It's like it's ahead of your skill sets. This makes grinding out your blacksmithing much slower due to not having the correct recipe for gains. Which I understand, but I know it's a problem. I've made 2 blacksmiths and 1 was GM the new one is 90+. Both times I ran into the same problem with work orders.

All I would like is to have your local Blacksmith (town NPC) give you your resource recipes and have the work order be the weapons/armor/cosmetics.... Which reminds me, where are the vanity slots? :P

So: the Blacksmith NPC will offer you the copper recipe once you have BS at 20.00 and ect.
Other work orders give you recipes for crafting everything else.

Also I would like to see a vein/mining overhaul. There are some ores that can be visible from a distance even some obsidian is noticeable, but for the most part, it's harder to see most of the obsidian, specially with the floor veins that you can mine. You either have to zoom way up or guess. (Not really but it's harder to see now then before experimental server started) Stop changing the hue and contrast of how noticeable the veins are plz :P

Lastly, let's make the ore correctly.
Iron = You can mine
Copper = yep
Bronze = No such Vein exists...Bronze consists of the alpha solid solution of tin in copper
Steel= No such vein exists. You need Carbon and Iron for Steel.
Obsidian = You need volcanic activity or would have needed volcanic activity to mine such a vein but does exist!

Non-ferrous metal ores, containing:

Copper (chalcopyrite, malachite and others)
Nickel (garnierite, pentlandite and others)
Lead (galena and others)
Zinc (sphalerite and others)
Tin (cassiterite and others)
Aluminium (bauxite and others)
Gold, silver, platinum and other precious metals
Uranium and thorium...

So let's see some new VEINS!!!!! and rework the resources to match how it really works.
Let's see the option to smelt too. I'd like to smelt my unused/not needed/spare crafted items into bars again.


Recap:
Smelting - Make it a thing
Correct/new vein types for resources.
NPC Blacksmiths training you/offering a way(quest or mission? or another work order :| ) to learn the next step of materials you can craft based on your skill level in blacksmithing - NOT random.. Skill based.
More visible veins (Don't know why it's changed so often :| it was right the first few times :P )
and..... a Vanity slot for cosmetic equipment that goes over actual gear like how UO had it minus the vanity slots.
Oh I have a cool looking robe!?!?! I can't wear the robe over my armor? oh :(

kk tty all later!!!!!1

Comments

  • JubbinJubbin Washington State
    Just to make sure you know: on both BS I made, I stock piled the iron work orders just so I could see if my chances of getting smaller rewards/recipes were increased. unfortunately after 20+ work orders I never saw copper or bronze... Instead I got obsidian on a iron work order and some weapon recipes.

    I also spammed a lot of high end work orders but never got any low end resources for recipes and had to go find a player merchant for the rest of my recipes. Not a bad alternative but there is always that "What if" factor of not finding the right player merchant :/

    The whole thing is just annoying as is.


    PS.... Can we also fix gains for carpentry? wtf are you all thinkin?
    How can I make 2 Blacksmiths (1 GM and 1 90+) faster than 1 person making a carpenter!? tf...
    Blacksmithing used to be one of the hardest things to GM, now it's MA and carpentry lol
  • JubbinJubbin Washington State
    oh and the ability to repair? I thought smithing hammers were gonna be a thing and give said smith a bonus % to the items durability!?!?!
  • My first recipe was Obsidian. I used it and now I can't do any work orders because they all require things I can't mine or craft.

    I also felt pretty stupid mining bronze/steel veins.
  • JubbinJubbin Washington State
    Swag said:

    My first recipe was Obsidian. I used it and now I can't do any work orders because they all require things I can't mine or craft.

    I also felt pretty stupid mining bronze/steel veins.

    ^^ I know!!! I just hope they have plans for it all.
  • LinthuLinthu Colorado
    Nice write up. I'm for it!
  • Regarding acquisition of recipes, which I think should be called plans in the case of blacksmith or blueprints. Whatever the case.. if it were working.. meaning, if it was a little more linear, would you be ok with the current method of getting recipes? in that you turn in an order, if you don't have all chain armor recipes, you are likely to not get scale.. if you don't have copper, you are likely not going to see bronze.. but.. you could still get it, just the chances would be much lower. Example: You have Iron, 50% chance to get next weapon plan in order of rarity. 15% chance to get next weapon of rarity, 7% chance to get next armor tier, 8% chance to get copper, 5% chance to get bronze if you don't have copper. 3% chance to get steel if you don't have copper or bronze.

    But in all this you could still get the same recipe. Let us say you have all the slashing weapons but 1. Well they could create a formula, as such. 45% chance of armor/45% chance of weapon,/10% chance of metal bar. if case weapon is selected, then a case for which weapon skill type, bashing 30% slashing 30%, Lancing 30%, shield 10%. If it lands on sword and you already have all swords save for 1, the large axe for example, then another percentage choice is made, 100% /# of slashing weapon is your chance. lets say you have 20% chance at getting that large axe, but often you wont, you will get the same darn long sword.. well.. that's tough luck, but you can share or sell the recipe.

    So basically this would still leave that dynamic in game, however smoothing it out so there would be no issues with progression.

    The only two things that I like about the way it is now, is that its kind of original, and you don't know what you will get next, leaving some anticipation.. They just need to fix it. But I think you are kind of killing the fun if you are just getting the recipe easily at level 20, like in every other mmo out there.
  • edited August 6
    Also to expand on the example above, I would expect if metal bar case is selected in this formula, then you could end up getting the same iron bar over and over, however.. Maybe they could make it like a 50% chance of copper (once the metal bar case is won) if you don't have copper, 10% chance of bronze. But if you have copper, 40% chance of bronze with an 5% of getting steel. Get bronze(and have copper) = 35% chance of getting steel with a 2% chance of getting obsidian. Have steel+copper+bronze? = 20-25% of getting Obsidian recipe. In this event I would also make the chance at getting repeats of steel for example much less than getting a repeat of copper.
  • JaworJawor Central Europe
    Hmm... I have written a post here and after I eddited it (2x or so) to get rid of some misspelled words, I got a message about it have to be approved. I hope it will appear back soon... This is not the first time it happend to my post :/
  • Hmm... I have written a post here and after I eddited it (2x or so) to get rid of some misspelled words, I got a message about it have to be approved. I hope it will appear back soon... This is not the first time it happend to my post
    Nope; it's gone.
  • JubbinJubbin Washington State

    Regarding acquisition of recipes, which I think should be called plans in the case of blacksmith or blueprints. Whatever the case.. if it were working.. meaning, if it was a little more linear, would you be ok with the current method of getting recipes? in that you turn in an order, if you don't have all chain armor recipes, you are likely to not get scale.. if you don't have copper, you are likely not going to see bronze.. but.. you could still get it, just the chances would be much lower. Example: You have Iron, 50% chance to get next weapon plan in order of rarity. 15% chance to get next weapon of rarity, 7% chance to get next armor tier, 8% chance to get copper, 5% chance to get bronze if you don't have copper. 3% chance to get steel if you don't have copper or bronze.

    But in all this you could still get the same recipe. Let us say you have all the slashing weapons but 1. Well they could create a formula, as such. 45% chance of armor/45% chance of weapon,/10% chance of metal bar. if case weapon is selected, then a case for which weapon skill type, bashing 30% slashing 30%, Lancing 30%, shield 10%. If it lands on sword and you already have all swords save for 1, the large axe for example, then another percentage choice is made, 100% /# of slashing weapon is your chance. lets say you have 20% chance at getting that large axe, but often you wont, you will get the same darn long sword.. well.. that's tough luck, but you can share or sell the recipe.

    So basically this would still leave that dynamic in game, however smoothing it out so there would be no issues with progression.

    The only two things that I like about the way it is now, is that its kind of original, and you don't know what you will get next, leaving some anticipation.. They just need to fix it. But I think you are kind of killing the fun if you are just getting the recipe easily at level 20, like in every other mmo out there.

    The issue isn't the order of which weapons you get through work orders. It's only the matter of not learning the next tier of ore to smelt into ingots. it's not synced with your skill level when you need to make iron work orders because you can't smelt copper yet and you seem to be getting Steel work orders.

    Maybe if you didn't get work orders that required you to make copper while you're only capable of doing iron of low quality. or work orders that want Obsidian when you can only make bronze.

    You JUST learned how to paint... Repaint the Mona Lisa :P
  • JubbinJubbin Washington State
    edited August 6
    I actually don't mind the reward system that's currently in game for Blacksmithing.. Other than the order in which you get your Ingot recipes.

    Those should be learned from the NPC blacksmith by fulfilling a BS/Mining Quest or rare Work order. or something. it shouldn't be left in the hands of chance.
  • YorlikYorlik www.arcanima.org
    I'm missing plastic ore veins.
  • Jubbin said:

    I actually don't mind the reward system that's currently in game for Blacksmithing.. Other than the order in which you get your Ingot recipes.

    Those should be learned from the NPC blacksmith by fulfilling a BS/Mining Quest or rare Work order. or something. it shouldn't be left in the hands of chance.

    Oh yeah of course, with my suggestions I primarily talking about rewards. So that Obsidian would essentially be more rare in any case, and iron would be most common. But still have the mechanic of chance.

    As far as orders go, I think it is kind of silly that you cannot choose from a list. I think a blacksmith trainer would give you whatever order you want, maybe laugh in your face if you choose something tough, but regardless, give you whatever and hope that you succeed, because he wants the completed orders.

    If they are trying to control rarity and create variation with orders... I'd leave that to rewards. just use the system I have suggested and decrease percentages to whatever you like.

    Also the order qty.. I think it should be directly related to the material required to produce... (by the way, I think skill gains should also be related to the materials used). So scale legs or something requiring 6 bars, Order request 5 (30 bars), buckler 2 bars, Order request 15 (30 bars), broadsword 3? order of 10, 30 bars. 4 bars order request of 7, (28) you get 25% less coin but you still get the recipe reward and bars.
    Something to that nature?
  • JaworJawor Central Europe
    edited August 7
    Swag said:

    Nope; it's gone.

    *sigh* Ok, I'll write it again. I have few ideas concerning BS in general and one major issue with ore types (might be just personal thing, but it is very wierd to me).

    Regarding recipes, we should get only those that we are able to complete at the time. Also, I think that amount of items needed to finish the work order should start at about 20-30 pieces and increase progressively according your BS skill. Chance to get recipe as a reward could be adequately reduced in this case.

    Another thing is speed of smithing, it is way to fast to forge an item. It might be ok for the lowest tier of armor/weapons (I would still prolong it a bit), but it make sense to also progressively increase time needed for forging attempt with higher tier material/product. It is much more complicated to forge steel sword than copper one.

    Next, I don't like that failed attempt to forge something results in loss of all material. It is very wierd to say the least. We should get back something like 33-50 % of the material. If you fail to forge a sword, you just resmelt it and try it again, not throw the whole thing away! I would be happy even if the amount of neede ingots would be a bit higher than currently as a compensation. The resmelting of failed product is just logical thing to do.

    I would love to see my actual chance to craft an item after the attempt.

    And now about the ores ... I really do NOT like the current state of ores and their order of rarity (tiers). Yes, it is mainly "cosmetic" issue, but it doesn't make much sense to me right now. There is no such a thing as "bronze ore" or "steel ore", those are alloys! And "obsidian ore" is absurd to me, obsidian is a vulcanic glass and also totally unsuitable for weapons, even worse for armors. It is super brittle and would crack after first impact. You can make surgical scalpels from obsidian, but that's it ... no weapons. Also, copper is much worse than iron for weapons ... people don't use it for over 4000-5000 years this way. Yes, copper is 100x less abundant (more rare) in Earth crust than iron, but it still should not be the better material. And world of Aria can have different ratio of elements.

    My suggestions to ore overhaul:
    1] Change the order of material tiers and replace obsidian with something else. Either classical mithril or invent some new ore... Copper < Iron < Bronze < Steel < Mithril (or something)

    2] Replace bronze ore with tin ore. Let us make bronze as an alloy from copper and tin. Tin will be the rare material limiting the availability of bronze. And copper will keep some value even for higher grade BS products this way. 3x copper + 1x tin = 2x bronze ... +/- reflects the real life ratio.

    3] Remove steel ore and also let us make an alloy. Something like: 2x iron + 1x carbon source + 1x flux = 1x steel. Carbon should be easy to get, either as a coal (mined same way as in previous game builds) or a charcoal (made from wood at forge or something). The flux, used to remove impurities from iron, should be limited resource. Typical example of flux used in steelmaking is Limestone. Same as in case of bronze, iron will hold value for higher tier products.
  • PetrPetr Czech Republic
    I think Jawor described nicly how the material part of crafting should look. And I hope its change somehow as the currecnt version is not logial and not even talking about how annoing is that there is no possibility to smelt the products you dont want to keep.

    My personal opinion is, that with a system of hidden stats and variation limited only to +x is not motivating to long time playing and farming. In this system I think, that majoryty of population ends very quckly in situation that they will have nothing to do (=farm). And then only those who want to PvP will keep play with a motivation.

    To say it as easy as possible I think, that you should more or less copy the crafting system from UO and add resists and other stats. This way you attract people to continue farm/craft. It's some king of Diablo effect as my friend calls it which force you to go out and kill evrythink, because there is a chance to get somethink perfectly suitable for your build and amor/weapon combination. And if it's good balanced you still can have a fun in open PvP regardless the fact that not all will have a top equip in a meaning of "maxed out". To keep equity on PvP events you can have a predefined equipment to all.

    If somethink will chance in this, than I higly hope for a chance to also follow up one topic about change skill cap to rais on 700 and add magic resistance skill instead of stat based resistance.
  • PetrPetr Czech Republic
    After some time spent on testing Mining and BS I have to say that the craft orders you received should be secured not only to what recipe you have, but also to what material you are able to smelt into ingots. Maybe don't even put the recipe for smelting ore into ingots.
    There should be some more reasonable conection to you skill. It doesn't make sense that with BS skill from 35,1 to 46,7 you get more than 50% of craft orders from obsidian and zero from iron. To wrap it up I ended up in blind road now, because I can only produce iron ingots, but didn't receiveing iron craft orders any more :blush: Crafting test done for now -> hope for better set up with release.
  • While checking what a smith could make would be possible, wouldn't it just be easier to not have recipes to smelt any ore types?
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