Hopefully Pessimistic (Message to the Developers)

Howdy guys,
As a quick warning to those about to read: This is a message meant for the Developers and is over 4 pages long. You have been warned.
Also, I also sent this message as a "contact us". So if you (the devs) read that, then you don't have to read this and vise versa. I just want to make sure the message gets through.
That's also why I have to paste it as a URL... it wouldn't fit here.
So to those who want to read it, here you go:
Hopefully Perssimistic (A Message to the Developers)
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Comments

  • ReduxRedux Canada
    edited July 22
    +1

    Good post.
  • GrifterOU812GrifterOU812 United States
    :sunglasses:
  • This post was well written. Please read LoA Team!
  • I think you addressed some legitimate concerns in your message, and I do appreciate that they were expressed rather mannerly compared to the tone and tune that typically accompanies such posts!

    Thanks for sharing.
  • RukTarRukTar Da Ork fort in down unda
    edited July 22
    Fer a oomie lats has gots lots ov smarts Jiff ... Rulg lat fer lats bubhosh scribblins
  • edited July 22

    very good write well said :)
  • Agree 100%.

    The team is very small and they should be letting the community contribute to the game in all areas like with game art and content - they have an army of people with various skills who will work for free they aren’t taking advantage of.

    If they designed this to be a community moddable game then why not make it easy to involve us at this early stage to help make the game a success? When something as basic as potion bottles look like they do they definitely need our help. :)
  • You have some points accurate, but over all I just feel you're lacking some common sense about how development works.

    The post seems a bit to entitled to me. And I don't endorse it fully.
  • Vyril said:

    You have some points accurate, but over all I just feel you're lacking some common sense about how development works.

    The post seems a bit to entitled to me. And I don't endorse it fully.

    I think a little explanation as to why you feel this way would be proactive for the conversation :)
  • Funny seeing the complaining about beast mastery, first person to hit 100 taming was 2 days after newest patch,first 100 beast master is already done. if thats too slow, what is a good speed?
    Instant?
    I think taming is faster than lancing.
    A lot of the rest of this is misinformation, beta's can still have quite a lot of bugs, the game is playable, i have played a hundred hours of it this week.
    I think the devs are great, they actually engage the players, you wanna whine about this?
    When is the last time you saw a blizzard dev IN GAME?
  • Ventrax DragontamerVentrax Dragontamer jeffrey@golick.ca
    I felt the need to address this issues Plague address, because I'm trying not to spread information:
    First, I hit 100 taming after 4 days, and I played for between 12-16 hours a day for those days. Second, no one has hit beastmaster 100 yet. Third, even IF I had maxed all three skills, they still aren't as good as a maxed lancer (because pets are currently underpowered). So yes, I believe that it currently is slow, because right now its more for fun to get it to max then for the results (a max level lancer could easily beat a max level beastmaster).
    As for the other things: Of course betas can have bugs, but when a game hits beta it should no longer have MAJOR bugs: AKA crashes, freezes, progression stoppers (getting to a point where you can't progress because of a bug) etc. Of course a beta can have bugs, I never said otherwise.
    Second, I never said the game was unplayable. What I said was that in it's current state, it's no where near completion. There are plenty of games that have only been in production for a few months and are "playable". But there's a difference between "playable" and "finished". This game is still pretty far off from finished in my opinion (which is why I said that they shouldn't even be thinking about open beta right now).
    Next, I never said the devs are bad. Infact, I kept complimenting them on their commitment to their work. What I said was their communication with the community was bad. As I mentioned in the post, the Dev Stream wasn't done properly, there are a lot of questions being asked by the community that aren't getting answered and to top it off, this weekend was supposed to be a stress test, but because of miscommunication (among other things), the population is the lowest it's been in weeks.
    Lastly, about the part where they said about the devs being in game... I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I never said the devs should be in the game more. I think the thing your referring to is the name of their characters that I referenced, which I do believe is an issue. A simple change to their avatars would fix this. Just changing their names to be more representitive of the world would be enough.
    To finish this off, I'm glad you took the time to read my post and gave your feedback. While I don't necessarily agree with the points you made, I do respect your right to have them.
  • beater07beater07 America


    First, I hit 100 taming after 4 days, and I played for between 12-16 hours a day for those days.

    -good lord, who has that much time to play games...geez.
  • DominusDominus I always start my day with a Special K, for breakfast.
    @Ventrax Dragontamer

    Good post. unfortunately it's nothing new, but maybe your polite approach will have some effect.

    There are some people here that like to pretend everything is great. Generally they seem to dismiss those that post valid criticism as trolling. But we are hearing the same sentiments from new arrivals over and over again.

    Many of you new guys won't believe this, but there used to be a time when the game honestly felt like it was going to be one of the best STEAM launches ever, and very close to Beta. The only real pressing concerns from the community was lag and combat balance.

    Most of the issues that's happening now could be seen coming over a year ago when they chose to cut back on communication, and switched strategies to copying other games instead of pursuing the unique path they were on.

    It's hard to guess at why some internal choices were made, but I do know some were very deliberate, and they are still puzzling to anyone that's been following this for a while.


  • You really think 4 days for 100 taming is too slow?
    You only get 600 points per character, id be bored in 3 weeks if everything was so easy.
    And a max level tamer is pretty damn strong, i am 90 slashing and am about equal to an emperor scorpion, chilly is running around with a million of them.
  • Vyril said:

    You have some points accurate, but over all I just feel you're lacking some common sense about how development works.

    The post seems a bit to entitled to me. And I don't endorse it fully.

    I agree
  • Vyril said:

    You have some points accurate, but over all I just feel you're lacking some common sense about how development works.

    The post seems a bit to entitled to me. And I don't endorse it fully.

    I agree
    And I thought I was the only one who felt this way. >.<
  • DominusDominus I always start my day with a Special K, for breakfast.
    Vyril said:

    You have some points accurate, but over all I just feel you're lacking some common sense about how development works.

    The post seems a bit to entitled to me. And I don't endorse it fully.

    He couldn't have presented it in a less entitled manner. I'd love to hear the specifics on why it's entitled by those that believe it to be so.

    Personally I'm good with a minimum 3 months to train skills, but that's assuming there's an enjoyable and varied gameplay, in a world that's complex enough to set personal milestones along the journey.

    After speaking to a few recent arrivals, and trying it out for myself after a long break. I now completely understand why new players want faster levelling because they can't really see much else to do. And there's nothing to do but senseless leveling along very linear pathways. At least Ventrax is new enough to still enjoy some of it, and he's very positive about it.

    Personally I think the tiny graveyard of the previous game had more depth to explore than almost the entirety of this new vast, and soulless world. (I'd love to hear some counter points to that claim)

    I think some of you guys, with undeniably positive intentions, are cheerleading this project into an iceberg. The best decision they made recently is delaying Steam, because it will sink fast in its current state.
  • beater07beater07 America
    I agree Dominus, the old Shards grave yard kept me entertained for weeks, many different kind of mobs, which got stronger as you went further in, ultimately leading to the entrance of catacombs dungeon which also was an extremely fun dungeon with lots of mobs, suprizes, bosses, and even loot.



    What I've experienced so far in LoA is a pretty boring grind on boring mobs. It's been said over and over that content will come, but when?



  • Ventrax DragontamerVentrax Dragontamer jeffrey@golick.ca
    I'm going to say my two cents on this whole discussion about my post (which is a metaness I never thought I'd reach).

    Personally, I don't really care if you agree or disagree with my post. I don't care if you provide feedback (constructive or otherwise). I don't care if you think that I'm entitled, or a nerd with no life, or an idiot.

    The thread was and still is, my attempt to reach out to the developers to provide them with my feedback on the game. I would like to see this game succeed, and I believe I had some good ideas to help that. Whether they agree or not, I don't really know. My only hope is that at the very least they read the post.

    I'm only posting this because I'm worried this is turning from a discussion into an argument/flamewar between the people who liked what I wrote and the people who disagree. I want to prevent that, because if this turns into a flame war, it's possible the devs might just close this thread without even reading the original post.

    All I ask if that if you guys want to keep responding to this thread, try to avoid arguing with people about their opinions. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If someone simply says "This post sucks", that's their opinion and their entitled to it. Have a discussion about feature that you guys enjoy/don't enjoy is fine, as long as it doesn't reach the point that either side feels the need to "defend" their opinion.

    So in summary, each of you is entitled to your opinion and are free to agree or disagree with my post however you want. This post is my way of telling the Devs what MY opinion is, in the hopes that even if they don't agree, it might help make the game a little better.

    Thanks,
    Jeff
  • I agree with everything the poster wrote. I’ve voiced my concerns in a couple posts my self. There is no communitcation with the devs anymore.

    I saw miphon at the bank in pyros, asked home a question, he asked for some scale armor, I gave it to him. Then find out he just pked a player... he didn’t want to talk or anothing... when miphon just bounced after wanting to talk and ask questions, I exited the game. This was a dev I lost respect for. I felt completely ignored.

    I also found out that out of all the posts, miphon responds to a PK Karma post.. of all things. And the only time I heard from the community it’s manGer was to post about a stress test.

    In the townhall meeting they say they care, but in the end they’ve lost touch with us, the players.

    You may see the devs in game like miphon, but there not there for communication. Miphon was perfect example of that, and I want my scale armor back!
  • ReduxRedux Canada
    Unrelated, but I don't actually think that was Miphon. I have a growing suspicion someone is running around with that name in-game.
  • Well, you don`t care about the community opinions about what you want but I`ll give mine anyway.
    All you said could be resumed largely by saying one thing: Content. We need content.
    Your empty world concerns, your lore concerns, your taming concerns, communication concerns all leads to Content. Let them work, because according to you, community opinion doesn`t matter anyway.
  • DominusDominus I always start my day with a Special K, for breakfast.
    Koz said:

    Well, you don`t care about the community opinions about what you want but I`ll give mine anyway.
    All you said could be resumed largely by saying one thing: Content. We need content.
    Your empty world concerns, your lore concerns, your taming concerns, communication concerns all leads to Content. Let them work, because according to you, community opinion doesn`t matter anyway.

    Before content comes direction. They don't have a direction. At least nothing meaningful. New content in the form of a different shaped blob, for your blob to poke at? Sure you might get more of that, if that's all you really want.

    But anything that made that experience meaningful got deliberately pulled, all because of a handful of vocal players who all left a long, long time ago.

    This may surprise a lot of you newcomers, but they purposely stripped out all of the previous quests, puzzles, plotlines and world lore to simplify and streamline the experience.

    There aren't any plans to add it back either, because and I'm paraphrasing "this is not a game about quests". You're supposed to build houses and interact with each other, hence all the open land.

    It's a space to explore your own existential anxiety, freed from any artificially imposed sense of purpose or meaning.

  • Dominus said:

    Koz said:

    Well, you don`t care about the community opinions about what you want but I`ll give mine anyway.
    All you said could be resumed largely by saying one thing: Content. We need content.
    Your empty world concerns, your lore concerns, your taming concerns, communication concerns all leads to Content. Let them work, because according to you, community opinion doesn`t matter anyway.

    Before content comes direction. They don't have a direction. At least nothing meaningful. New content in the form of a different shaped blob, for your blob to poke at? Sure you might get more of that, if that's all you really want.

    But anything that made that experience meaningful got deliberately pulled, all because of a handful of vocal players who all left a long, long time ago.

    This may surprise a lot of you newcomers, but they purposely stripped out all of the previous quests, puzzles, plotlines and world lore to simplify and streamline the experience.

    There aren't any plans to add it back either, because and I'm paraphrasing "this is not a game about quests". You're supposed to build houses and interact with each other, hence all the open land.

    It's a space to explore your own existential anxiety, freed from any artificially imposed sense of purpose or meaning.

    That view of player content driven has to be backed by game content. The world feels empty, soulless.
    I don`t want a front page writen lore,I want different and encouraging encounters inside the game. I play games to explore their world, the view that the developers have about their game. What they present to us, and then we make our own stuff from it. Different blobs won`t be bad if that blob is not only visually different but has some uniqueness associated with it. The best experience I had in this game was to start at Pyros Landing, I love that place. Altough a dock city isn`t new in concept its surrounding is awesome visually speaking. It has that uniqueness in it. Helm is a city I also like, but it`s surroundings is terrible. You have 3 mines at that place, 2 outside the city. None is guarded by a camp of enemies, or roaming ones.
    That is at least 2 concepts of content right there: map identity and uniqueness.
  • Agree with almost all of the post. Especially the part about them delaying the game, and it still being in an alpha state. Hopefully the devs actually take the time to read it.

    The point of there being no interaction with the community is a big one that I don't see brought up often enough. I've seen a few times now where Supreem and Miphon join the discord, chat with everyone for a bit, and go "ok now we need to get back to work" and leave the discord... for months.

    I'd be okay with this under 2 conditions: 1) it was the reverse case, where the absences were the rare thing, rather them interacting with the community being the rare thing. 2) if the "get back to work" part actually meant the game's development was progressing while we're all sitting here in radio silence. As it stands, and I know this is harsh, but I have absolutely no idea how such little work gets done on Aria. I want to say more on that point, but I can't formulate it in a way that doesn't sound rude, so I'll just cut it there.
  • Agree with almost all of the post. Especially the part about them delaying the game, and it still being in an alpha state. Hopefully the devs actually take the time to read it.

    The point of there being no interaction with the community is a big one that I don't see brought up often enough. I've seen a few times now where Supreem and Miphon join the discord, chat with everyone for a bit, and go "ok now we need to get back to work" and leave the discord... for months.

    I'd be okay with this under 2 conditions: 1) it was the reverse case, where the absences were the rare thing, rather them interacting with the community being the rare thing. 2) if the "get back to work" part actually meant the game's development was progressing while we're all sitting here in radio silence. As it stands, and I know this is harsh, but I have absolutely no idea how such little work gets done on Aria. I want to say more on that point, but I can't formulate it in a way that doesn't sound rude, so I'll just cut it there.

    How many games have you made?
    Do you know how difficult it is to code a drop table or a damage algorithm?
  • VirtueAvatarVirtueAvatar Britannia
    I'm always happy when a dev gives "rough launch dates". I'd rather know something than nothing. If it's delayed, even by a long time, no problem. Just keep it honest, please.
  • andreBRandreBR Brasil
    Concordo com o post, e também gostaria de ficar mais por dentro do andamento do desenvolvimento..
  • Dominus said:

    they purposely stripped out all of the previous quests, puzzles, plotlines and world lore to simplify and streamline the experience.

    For me, this is truly a shame. I cut the head off a bandit for the first time and was excited to find out what this meant and how it could benefit me. It was to my great disappointment that I discovered that this piece of content was cut. I do find it odd that I now see videos on youtube making me wish I did not miss the old days of alpha where I see a lot of content that makes sense for the game but is no longer present. I shouldn't feel nostalgic for a games previous state before it has even be released.

    I mean you have shops and these shops have some key items for sale on their counter, but then they have crates full of other things as well. This is what I was taught in a video on youtube and this seemed logical and made sense. It was then very confusing to instead find a world where vendors sell 4-6 items on their shelf but also have a shop full of empty and useless crates. Why would something like this be cut?

    Another one is double-clicking a hearth and binding to its location, I later find out the spell used to return you here has been removed. Correct me if I'm wrong but that means that I bound myself to a hearth and doing so means nothing at all?

    The bandits head, the shops, and the hearth are just three examples of not cut content, but half-cut content. The perfect amount of 'half-cut' that makes me yearn for more from a game that simply won't deliver it.

    I assume the developers are aware that much more content is required before release.
    If
    Dominus said:

    You're supposed to build houses and interact with each other, hence all the open land.

    is true, then I worry that this game will become little more than a large open world shopping center instead of the game I pledged for in 2016.

    I've shared some concerns but they are little more than that. It's not fair to judge a game while it is still in a pre-release state and I have no intention of doing so until the game is available on steam.
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