make fighting from horseback its own skill please

one of the hardest thing to do in combat is riding a horse and still be able to use a weapon so why does this game make it so easy? for 1, riding a horse on its own should be a skill by itself..for 2 , riding a horse and using a weapon at same time is a whole different skillset... please look into this
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Comments

  • I fully support this request!
  • Agreed. At least Mounted Combat need to be a skill.
  • gwarthamgwartham Devils of Kimone
    Um.

    No?

    Always gotta question the motivation or the logic of someone who plays a game where lightning and fire shoot from peoples hands, and you are transported around by some form of teleporter, cherry picking something and using reality as their excuse on why something should be a certain way.....
  • I don't know what the other posters' motivations are, @gwartham, but I don't think it is safe to assume they're just calling for realism. I don't think realism is a good reason for this proposal either and I think it would be helpful if everyone who supports a separate skill for riding or mounted combat or whatever level of separation they are specifically advocating would provide an argument for how it would enhance the game.

    I actually think it would be a great idea to add advantages and disadvantages to being mounted and implement a skill to govern those mechanics. Perhaps mounts are trivial to ride on roads and in fields, but suffer huge movement penalties in forested or rocky areas that can only be mitigated by having a high Riding skill. Characters with low Riding would suffer attack speed, accuracy, and spell fail rate penalties when fighting from horseback, as well as being much easier to dismount. Some types of horses could be introduced that are easier to ride, but have a smaller speed bonus.

    The specifics are less important to this discussion than the overall concept, though. I'm very much in favor of changes that give players more choices and make it that much harder to optimize a given character by providing more potentially advantageous skills or attributes than a character has points to allocate.
  • SachaSacha [Reino de Aldor]
  • gwarthamgwartham Devils of Kimone
    edited May 14
    Travel already sucks in this game.....why make it even more tedious? Horses already have the disadvantage of rider being unhorsed.

    Again...no.

    And you guys keep forgetting that LoA is purely a BASE system of gameplay. If you really want that level of systems in game simply customize your own server with that ruleset.
  • SachaSacha [Reino de Aldor]
    It's funny how many suggestions (when not shared) are just dismissed with that "do it in your own server". Like some players can't give their views on how to make the game better.
    Of course all those who want secure trading, boats, thieves and necromancy, or restrict high level resources to unprotected areas, can do it on their own server.
  • gwartham said:

    Travel already sucks in this game.....why make it even more tedious? Horses already have the disadvantage of rider being unhorsed.

    Again...no.

    And you guys keep forgetting that LoA is purely a BASE system of gameplay. If you really want that level of systems in game simply customize your own server with that ruleset.

    we can easily suppose to focus "riding" skill as a combat prerequisite, allowing all to use mounts but only who have that skill to combat too
    so workers can move all around world, while fighter can even fight on a horse (but this suppose to rework the dismount)
  • fiyadankfiyadank Murica
    example...using a weapon requires putting skill points to use..that weapon is basically a tool to help you kill things correct? a horse is a "tool" that lets you have ease of walking . if you have to spend points to raise a skill that is also a "tool"(weapons). then shouldn't you have to use points to use the "tool" that lets you get from A to B while using said "tool"(weapon)
  • waygonewaygone Alaska
    edited May 14
    I would think that if a higher level of a proposed "riding skill" makes mounted combat more viable, then gathering/harvesting should be able to be done with higher riding skill..
  • fiyadankfiyadank Murica
    ok this is bothering me to no end...it takes "skill" to ride a horse plain n simple
    just like it takes "skill" to use a weapon or to cook, or to gather, etc...

    what makes people think they are entitled to having the fastest form of transportation right off the bat?
    every mmo ive ever played mayed your work atleast a lil bit to earn a mount..why should this be different?

    ok ok I get it, this isn't every other mmo...but there is a reason most of those game followed that line of thinking when it came down to mounts..

    so is this game saying that when your character is "born" (created) that it somehow automatically knows how to ride a horse?...now someone is gonna bring up the whole "but we can use magic blah blah blah" but we don't start off knowing magic do we? no, we have to "learn" it..

    so if we have to learn to ride a horse, or learn to fight on horseback the people that wine that it isn't fair or whatever are those the type of entitled people that you want playing your game to begin with? I sure as hell don't want to play with those kind of people.
  • gwarthamgwartham Devils of Kimone
    edited May 17
    fiyadank said:



    what makes people think they are entitled to having the fastest form of transportation right off the bat?
    every mmo ive ever played mayed your work atleast a lil bit to earn a mount..why should this be different?

    A. Guess ya never played UO. Ya know the game this one is very heavily based off? Daoc is another one...

    B. EARNING a mount is not the same as spending skill points to ride a mount.

    C. I don't know how much experience you have with real horses, but I kinda grew up around them, and it really doesn't take a whole lot of skill to simply ride a broke horse, and within a hour or so you can get one comfortable with cantering, and another hour after that a full gallop.

    D. Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya. Entitled....get real.

    So I really hope you are no longer bothered to no end.
  • fiyadankfiyadank Murica
    yeah nice try but NO . that's not how it works..thanks for trying to single me out and troll me tho..and yes "entitled" is indeed the perfect word for it troll..thanks for playing..
  • fiyadankfiyadank Murica
    and I'm going to actually take the bait .....yes I grew up on a sugar cane ranch in the deep south , we raised horse and cattle..ive been on a horse since I was 2 years old. I used to ride local rodeos' barrel racing, pole racing etc. quarter horse,paints... but anyway yeah I grew up old school cowbow big hat bigger belt buckle and I know pretty much everything this is to know about breakin in horses,shoe'n, rope'n ..so don't come bring me this "it can be done in an hour" bullshit cause it aint happenin folks..

    we are talking about raw wild mustangs here in the game. not some domesticated breed that is gonna bend for you head n foot...you are not gonna tame a horse in a hour and muchless learn to use a weapon on it in an hour...

    oh and btw I'm a daoc vet and we didn't have horses handed to us at the beginning. they were there as a means of fast travel to diff locations..they weren't personal property..they wernt part of our inventory..
  • edited May 17
    Count how many skills of 600 points for a base warrior, mage, archer, tamer. You will probably come up with 4 critical skills and room for 200 points to fill it out and customize it. Adding another skill to warriors would break this balance. Although fighters may suffer this atrocity if it had 50% > chance of stopping a dismount.

    I don't like it from a balance perspective. If we fly off on realism, well that is a never ending list. What is next? Separate weapon skills for each and every weapon ? A dodge skill ? You go off on realism this list will never end.
  • SachaSacha [Reino de Aldor]
    Yes, fighting upon a running horse with a full plate on needs no skill, nowhere near vigor, cooking or treasure hunting.
  • CryodacryCryodacry cryodacry@hotmail.com
    Franklin said:

    Count how many skills of 600 points for a base warrior, mage, archer, tamer. You will probably come up with 4 critical skills and room for 200 points to fill it out and customize it. Adding another skill to warriors would break this balance. Although fighters may suffer this atrocity if it had 50% > chance of stopping a dismount.

    I don't like it from a balance perspective. If we fly off on realism, well that is a never ending list. What is next? Separate weapon skills for each and every weapon ? A dodge skill ? You go off on realism this list will never end.

    you are stating that a warrior needs this skill.... ... I would prefer that to engage in combat you have to be dismounted. The whole combat while mounted argument only supports ganking in PVP.... just zoom and boom mages. Archers like it for mobility but again with light armor on Archers are getting movement bonus there...

    There is absolutely no reason to have mounted combat in this game...
  • It's really very simple. Additional skills adds depth to the game, and forces players to make choices. Riding a horse should be available for everyone, right out of the gate, but riding a horse well is a skill, and attempting to fight would take even more skill.

    No one in this thread is advocating that horses should have their own stamina bars, require food (like the original UO did), or being brushed regularly (like Wurm). Something simple like the higher your skill the less likely it is to get knocked off, or a lower 'cooldown' timer, or faster 'dismiss' action. Further, the addition of 'mounted combat' as a skill could increase damage from melee weapons, or increase chance to knock someone else off their mount, would also add depth and player choices.
  • Pvp where everyone is zooming around on mounts jousting, etc. is too linear and boring.

    There should be valid reasons to fight mounted or in foot.

    UO never really accomplished this.
  • gwarthamgwartham Devils of Kimone
    edited May 17
    fiyadank said:

    and I'm going to actually take the bait .....yes I grew up on a sugar cane ranch in the deep south , we raised horse and cattle..ive been on a horse since I was 2 years old. I used to ride local rodeos' barrel racing, pole racing etc. quarter horse,paints... but anyway yeah I grew up old school cowbow big hat bigger belt buckle and I know pretty much everything this is to know about breakin in horses,shoe'n, rope'n ..so don't come bring me this "it can be done in an hour" bullshit cause it aint happenin folks..

    we are talking about raw wild mustangs here in the game. not some domesticated breed that is gonna bend for you head n foot...you are not gonna tame a horse in a hour and muchless learn to use a weapon on it in an hour...

    oh and btw I'm a daoc vet and we didn't have horses handed to us at the beginning. they were there as a means of fast travel to diff locations..they weren't personal property..they wernt part of our inventory..


    Ok where to start.

    A. Raw wild mustangs? Arent you kind of making a assumption there? I mean I am buying my horses from a stable....MY assumption is they would already be broke, YOUR assumption is that they are freshies.

    B. Yes in the beginning in Daoc they were just used for fast travel, and weren't property. When darkness rising came out you got your own personal mounts, and they didn't require a skill investment to ride them. Its the skillpoint investment I oppose. This game already has a Achilles heel, and thats gonna be travel.

    And no i'm not trolling, thats just a simpletons or snowflakes way of trying to win a debate when someone disagrees with you. Someone is asking for riding and fighting from horseback to require precious skill points. I disagree with that concept, and I will give my examples and reasons why that shouldn't happen.

    And there is no such thing as "extra" or "free" skillpoints here, especially if you are a pvper, which, clearly the OP isn't, or he wouldn't of made that statement.

    My guess is someone is someone is tired of being either unmounted in PvP, or doesn't like the fact that he is unmounted fighting a mob and then gets pk'd.

    Hell I would say the fact that you can EASILY be dismounted off your horse by someone who is unequally skilled in dismounting opponents from horses kinda nullifies the whole skill thing.

    Its either that or someone is wanting this to be a realism sim, which clearly this isnt.

    Either way my counterpoints are valid. Enjoy!
  • waygonewaygone Alaska
    I played DAOC for more than 12 years and, to my recollection, have NEVER used a skill or casted a spell and remained mounted. So, please forget DAOC as a point of reference when it comes to mounted combat for goodness sakes!
    My 2 cents. I think that mounted combat (i.e. casting and melee) should be allowed but require some skill points to be effective. If done right, it could add alot to the game. Skill points might have to be sacrificed somewhere else, but it would help diversify combat a little. Now, EVERY pvper is mounted. Nothing in a sandbox game should be required, especially for pvp.
  • MazcoteMazcote United States
    If being mounted gives ANY benefit then it should consume something (I don't know what).

    As it stands right now I believe the benefit is movement speed.
    This can be balanced by an unmounted player forcing a mounted player to dismount, one suggestion would be that this could consume agility upon dismount or a hit to the health bar. Perhaps since the mounted player is a much larger target then the miss chance is negated. Maybe once the mounted player is dismounted the mount flees or dies.

    The fact is that currently, if a player is mounted, that player has an advantage which cannot be mitigated by an unmounted player.

    There MUST be a con to every pro, especially in PVP!
  • gwarthamgwartham Devils of Kimone
    edited May 19
    Mazcote said:

    If being mounted gives ANY benefit then it should consume something (I don't know what).

    As it stands right now I believe the benefit is movement speed.
    This can be balanced by an unmounted player forcing a mounted player to dismount, one suggestion would be that this could consume agility upon dismount or a hit to the health bar. Perhaps since the mounted player is a much larger target then the miss chance is negated. Maybe once the mounted player is dismounted the mount flees or dies.

    The fact is that currently, if a player is mounted, that player has an advantage which cannot be mitigated by an unmounted player.

    There MUST be a con to every pro, especially in PVP!

    But nobody is stopping you from riding a horse currently, is there?

    Its kinda funny how the pve crowd always wants to create haves and have nots, and the PvP crowd wants everyone to be equal. And sorry that's how I am reading all this.

    Basically some of you probably have been out hunting mobs, mob hits you and knocks you off your mount, probably kills your mount, and so you start hunting on foot. Now mr PK comes onto your screen on horseback, smacks you down, so you blame the horse.

    Im the few months I ran around killing people, I literally ran into 2, thats right 2, people who actually turned around and fought back, and both times it ended up with me off my horse, just like them.

    Fact is right now, EVERYTHING dismounts you, whether it be a lowly spider or a fireball.

    Someone rides onto your screen ready to pk you, stop being sheep and running for your lives. Turn around and attack them, odds are your going to end up dismounting them in one or 2 shots.

    Sorry guys, Pk's being on foot isn't gonna save you if your on foot either, I can close the gap quicker with teleport then with the horse anyway.

  • gwartham said:

    Mazcote said:



    If being mounted gives ANY benefit then it should consume something (I don't know what).

    The fact is that currently, if a player is mounted, that player has an advantage which cannot be mitigated by an unmounted player.


    I pretty much agree with you, although I haven't had much of a problem losing my horse mid combat as a pure mage. And I rarely get caught by PKs without my horse because I can just res him right after the battle is over.

    But If we were to add a "riding" skill, I think people without it should be able to operate horses just fine, but if you want to say, decrease your chance of being knocked off your horse or run faster on a horse, you could add a "Riding" skill, that would make you sacrifice an entire 100 points to ride optimally.

    Maybe a riding skill could work. It might seem like it would make a character OP, but we only get 6 gm skills, and you'd have to sacrifice 100 of your skill points just to get the riding perk.

    Not sure how I feel about it, but horseback combat should definitely stay and be available to everyone. I'm not fundamentally against this idea, but if implemented correctly it could be interesting and open up new build combinations. Maybe even have another skill juxtaposed where you gain bonuses for not being mounted. Definitely some ideas worth considering.

  • SachaSacha [Reino de Aldor]
    gwartham, what if you stop presupposing why others have the opinion they have and concentrate in arguments for your own?
    It has been already said that one of the main reasons to ask for a riding skill is so horses is not a all-advantages thing with no investment, so we might see people who rather spend their points in different things, adding to the variety of the server.
    And you keep insisting on the pk/pve war and the dismounting issue, that has nothing to do with it.
  • waygonewaygone Alaska
    @Sacha
    Exactly!
    Why the narrowmindedness in thinking that a riding skill would RUIN current build for pvp? Instead, look at the possibilities that it would open up with fighting from horseback. For instance, it would open up melee combat from horseback. And, since melee ability skills from horseback probably aren't intended to be used currently, it would make that available as well. It should also optimize casting and bow using from horseback. A riding skill would open up a HUGE range of possibilities for pve'ers AND pvp'ers
  • I am against mounted combat.
    Mounted combat would mean that everyone would need to be mounted. The advantages are just too good.
    Like a "magic resists" skill it would be a necessity instead of a choice.
  • waygonewaygone Alaska
    So, since mounted combat exists in the game right now, you think casting and bow use from horseback should be removed?
  • gwarthamgwartham Devils of Kimone
    waygone said:

    So, since mounted combat exists in the game right now, you think casting and bow use from horseback should be removed?

    I don't think that is what he is saying.

    He is simply saying it would become a must have skill, just like MR was in UO. It wouldn't add to variety of builds, it would be in literally every single PvP build because it would be 100% op against anyone who doesn't have it in non dungeon combat. We only have 600 skill points here, and the devs have already said they want viable hybrid characters, so removing that 100 points because it would become a "must have" would actually move us all one more step closer to cookie cutter builds.

    Again, if your main interest is PvE, then you spend a lot of time in dungeons, which don't allow for mounts anyway, unless they changed it, or you spend most of your time on foot above ground because everything you fight knocks you off your horse anyway, so yeah, thats why this kinda smells of a PvEr request. Kinda like how right now so many PvE types have hiding/stealth in their templates because off how broken it is currently.

    TLDR: Basically your request would fly in the face of the devs design goals, and would drive more people into a vanilla type build, especially in PvP, so it would actually do the opposite of what you guys think it would, and overall from a PK standpoint wouldn't help pvers because the PK would still get the drop on you.

    Its why this never made sense to me in the first place.
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