Refund?

How do I get a refund? Shards was to be a game I could host and have friends play on, now it is Legends of Aria basically a PvP MMO and I have no interest in.
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Comments

  • BelgeranBelgeran @DarkLotus
    Nothing has changed, LoA will still let you host a server for you and your friends and customize the ruleset as you see fit.

    It's not a PvP MMO unless that's what you want it to be.
  • So we can host your world with different rules?

    I would still like to know where "Create your world: With our powerful world editor, you will create completely original game worlds." is?
  • BelgeranBelgeran @DarkLotus
    edited March 25
    Nothing has changed since the kickstarter, $200 pledges and above have access to the server hosting and world building tools ( you can see a bunch of them in the community servers tab) early. Standard level pledges have to wait till general release of the game as it has always been.

    What gave you the idea that any of this has changed?
  • SachaSacha [Reino de Aldor]
    well both are right, some admins would like to know where that is too! haha
  • LoULoU Legends of Ultima
    "our powerful world editor"

    Oh yeah, I thought I was missing a detail somewhere.
  • edited March 26
    @JamesS I do totally understand your position


    On topic:
    Please let´s be honest and forget the fanboy-ism for a minute.
    Belgeran is wrong. The focus shifted from a kickstarter promise where the main feature was creating worlds, well to a wannabe-UO successor with questionable patches. The whole creation process is very limited, performance still same issues and Steam Realease is not around the corner anymore with all those new features planned.
    Also we won´t do the game any good, if we don´t try to understand the critics!

    Everyone has to decide for themselves, If you are :
    * enough fanboy to trust CS with any decision,
    * frustrated but still give Citadel a chance,
    * go for a refund, no matter what.

    All 3 options are much better than Trashtalking the game into the ground, including bad reviews, etc.
    I think that counts for all sides (Citadel included).

    A serious business company has to take a stand and be fair (also regarding Refunds). Otherwise ghosts from the past will kill it on Steam within weeks..


    @LoU
    yeah.. 2 years ago we thought it´s around the corner.. just a few months

    Now we think the same.. strange eh?!^^
  • BelgeranBelgeran @DarkLotus
    LoU said:

    "our powerful world editor"

    Oh yeah, I thought I was missing a detail somewhere.

    What are you talking about? How is Unity not a powerful world editor?
    HavoKing said:

    Belgeran is wrong. The focus shifted from a kickstarter promise where the main feature was creating worlds, well to a wannabe-UO successor with questionable patches. The whole creation process is very limited, performance still same issues and Steam Realease is not around the corner anymore with all those new features planned.

    How on earth can you justify this?

    You have:
    Complete access to build a scene as you wish within Unity minus scripts and shaders and camera, and the ability to add as many new objects as you want, The stuff that you cant add new ones yet ie music, sounds, UI textures, are just a matter of time. i dont see how you could have any more freedom without writing your own client.

    Then server side you have complete control over all game logic.

    This is exactly what was offered on kickstarter and is exactly what has been delivered.
  • SachaSacha [Reino de Aldor]
    maybe those who have been playing with the latest unity toolkit, if any, should say that. The rest is just guessing.
  • edited March 26
    Being frustrated with the delays and with the development priority and marketing emphasis on the official server's multiplayer experience, does not equate to the community server / modding aspects being removed.

    I have seen no indication that Citadel Studios' end goal for modding and community server support has changed. Belgran pointed out there is a lot you can already do. That is very much my own experience as well. Both with what we have been doing in Unity + LoA toolkit plugins for it, and in terms of ruleset modding.

    I am not suggesting we have everything we need, or that there is not a lot of polish still needed for things we do have. But I think suggesting modding is very limited or missing in general forum, where people do not have access to context (aka, seeing what is available already for modders), would be a cheap shot.

    If that were true, we could not be in the process of creating a 5th Edition D&D ruleset to replace the official one with, nor be working on content such as this:

    image

    image
  • kiizkiiz Bergen / Norway
    What? we can get refunds from LoA?!!!
    Didnt bother to read , just saw refund...
  • LoULoU Legends of Ultima
    "our powerful world editor"
  • GrungeGrunge Mountains
    Omg... facepalm...
  • BelgeranBelgeran @DarkLotus
    Pharaun said:

    Being frustrated with the delays and with the development priority and marketing emphasis on the official server's multiplayer experience, does not equate to the community server / modding aspects being removed.

    Thanks Pharaun that is all i was trying to say.
    I can only put LoU and Sacha's attitudes down to wanting everything on a silver platter and have CS do all the work for them and provide visual tools for every single aspect. If your not after the stock game then of course a large modification is going to take a lot more work, but saying the capability is not there is simply misleading.

  • YorlikYorlik www.arcanima.org
    edited March 28
    Belgeran said:

    Pharaun said:

    Being frustrated with the delays and with the development priority and marketing emphasis on the official server's multiplayer experience, does not equate to the community server / modding aspects being removed.

    Thanks Pharaun that is all i was trying to say.
    I can only put LoU and Sacha's attitudes down to wanting everything on a silver platter and have CS do all the work for them and provide visual tools for every single aspect. If your not after the stock game then of course a large modification is going to take a lot more work, but saying the capability is not there is simply misleading.

    We (community servers) have just started to scratch the surface of what is already possible.

    What's really missing though is a working, not-just-experimental custom asset support.

    But the truth also is, that most community servers have barely gone
    beyond the level of mere customization, though some try to sell
    their customizations as total conversion even if it is far from that.

    Still - it's CSs job to dumb it down and make modding as accessible as possible.
    But it's NOT their job to make things that are naturally hard easy,
    like changing or swapping out an entire subsystem like combat or magic.
  • SachaSacha [Reino de Aldor]
    Belgeran said:

    Thanks Pharaun that is all i was trying to say.
    I can only put LoU and Sacha's attitudes down to wanting everything on a silver platter and have CS do all the work for them and provide visual tools for every single aspect. If your not after the stock game then of course a large modification is going to take a lot more work, but saying the capability is not there is simply misleading.

    I find this post quite offensive, to be honest.
    I have supported this project for more than 3 years, coping with the delays, and trying to help CS with my humble means, and I haven't asked for anything more than what was offered.
    I have spent hundreds of hours of work with what CS has given us admins, trying to do stuff like translation tools or new mining materials, and sharing that work with the community. And I plan on spending much more hours in the future, for all the changes and programming I have planned and systems we have designed.
    To read you now saying I want everything on a silver platter would be outrageous if your opinion was to be more relevant.
  • edited March 28
    Yorlik said:


    We (community servers) have just started to scratch the surface of what is already possible.

    What's really missing though is a working, not-just-experimental custom asset support.

    But the truth also is, that most community servers have barely gone
    beyond the level of mere customization, though some try to sell
    their customizations as total conversion even if it is far from that.

    Still - it's CSs job to dumb it down and make modding as accessible as possible.
    But it's NOT their job to make things that are naturally hard easy,
    like changing or swapping out an entire subsystem like combat or magic.

    exactly.. I do fully agree with Yorlik, since the info is accurate!



    @Sacha Well, the world is not fair, but you know that we heard that 2 years ago, too.
    Same talk that some of us Admins wanted too much - lol
    We need to see when additional functionality is available, but it does hurt our own intentions not to voice it. Keep it up, same for LoU and others that are still somewhat active.



    On Topic:
    Be it as it is, there has to be a middle-way for ALL backers, especially the Admin-backers.
    You guys know very well that we´ve been a tiny group at start! Funny thing is that Pre-Admin phase was the best, because when the potential group grew to around 100 since Winter 2016 many left because everything was very *raw* (true), didn´t even start to look into the scripts or care to work into Lua. That said the entry barrier for not professional or very experienced individuals was and still is VERY high.
    Can we agree on that? Thanks.


    My 2 cent on this..
  • SachaSacha [Reino de Aldor]
    We have great possibilities to work in the scripting area (even if some issues do hurt the entry barrier).
    It's in the toolset area (or Unity) where I find we are more limited right now, with a lot of bugs & issues that block new admins to be able to do anything easily.
  • RastikRastik Latvia
    edited April 1
    You can do everything easily in Little Big Planet. But with a limited given tools.
    You can do completely anything with Unity, but it won't be easy. You have to learn C# and Unity. Actually, there are lots of courses like - Udemy, that are learning you to use Unity and C# from scratch just for 10$. You will get also more profit for your own future from learning to program on C# and using Unity. Like in all kind of different areas, unity is making builds on pretty much anything: Android, iOS, Xbox One, PS4, Apple TV and many more devices. Instead of learning 1 unique game preset admin tools, you won't ever by able to use somewhere else... Choice is obvious, I'm happy that CS don't waste their time, and don't over engineer with some limited map editor. They gave you source code, and allowed you to modify it! That's alot more than some stupid map editor...
  • We were promised the ability to patch our own assets and have our own stand alone editor. YEARS after dropping $200 on this nonsense, we are limited to the same lua scripting that we had when this was Shards.

    I wouldn't mind if this game wasn't such a step back Shards from a UI perspective. There's not even any quests. This game went from an MMO to a boring survival game.

    Please give me a refund too!
  • SanyaSanya Inside your computer Administrator
    Notes: If you want a refund, all you have to do is email and ask. There's not really any point in posting here if that's all you want. You ask, you get, we part friends. This forum is explicitly for the use of people who want to play this game, now or eventually. If you feel like it's not something you want to play, or going in that direction, that is totally cool and no hard feelings...but I can't allow you to take up discussion time.

    Note for those remaining: No more calling each other fanboy, okay? Not that it's a huge problem in this thread, just...going forward, let's do better. I HATE that word, because it is eventually used to smear anyone who doesn't straight up abuse the developers. We aren't at that stage yet, thank goodness, but I'm going to put a stop to that before it can start.

    I don't see any "fanboys" in this thread. I see people with different tolerance levels for the current state of the admin tools, and different levels of willingness to wait any longer. You're different from each other, not on different sides. And I can see all your points of view and find them valid. If I can do that, as a committed party*, then surely you that are involved can manage as much.

    Be kind to each other until I can at least get more information for you. That won't be until after PAX, but this is a discussion I need to have with the team, and then privately with the admin/backers, before there's public chit chat.


    *Question: In a bacon-and-egg breakfast, what's the difference between the Chicken and the Pig?
    Answer: The Chicken is involved, but the Pig is committed!


  • SanyaSanya Inside your computer Administrator
    Not that you can't talk about it, don't let me kill the thread or anything, but I mean, I can't say more than I've said without some major conversations on this end.
  • edited April 2
    OK, thanks for clarifying. If that is Citadel Studios stand on this, I see where this is going..

    I want a refund for my 500$ Pre-Admin pledge too!!
    Now I´m really disappointed, even in you Sanya! Killing discussion won´t help at this point.
    Many players and Admins tried to give this project impulses where needed.

    @Wordsworth is right. 100% signed.
    Those were the promises. And I couldn´t even create my Pledge-Weapon with the devs, because it got delayed and delayed. Now we´re what 6 months before Steam? Still nothing.

    Note, I did NOT get anything more than any 200$ Admin-backer. Delay from original SteamEA is more than 2 years! Most of the Admins couldn´t do much because Assets and Editor were far from even ready.
    The List is endless.. And 200$ was only worth it to very few individuals.. like Yorlik.


    [Edited by the moderator. You don't get to throw around accusations with no proof besides you made accusations, my friend. Also: If you're going, go. If you're staying, stay. But saying goodbye and then not leaving is just annoying. And if you do stay, enough with the "banned" tag. It's a bit silly, like not putting back your shoelaces so you can "prove" you've been to prison. --SMW]
  • SachaSacha [Reino de Aldor]
    But @HavoKing I see no "killing discussion" here, at least for those who want to stay.
    For what I understood from Sanya's post:
    - Those who want refund ask it by email, get it and leave.
    - Those who want to stay can keep discussing in the forum.
  • edited April 2
    [Edited by moderator: If you're going, go, if you're staying, stay, but saying you're leaving and then staying is boring. -- SMW]
  • kiizkiiz Bergen / Norway
    Sacha said:


    For what I understood from Sanya's post:
    - Those who want refund ask it by email, get it and leave.

    Wait, what?! I can ask for a refund and possibly get it just by emailing?
    Can someone drop me the email address like asap???!??!
    X-mas came early if this is true!
  • VeronicaVeronica AriaHub.org
    edited April 2
    [Edited by moderator, mainly because it didn't make any sense after an upstream edit. -- SMW]
  • BelgeranBelgeran @DarkLotus

    We were promised the ability to patch our own assets and have our own stand alone editor. YEARS after dropping $200 on this nonsense, we are limited to the same lua scripting that we had when this was Shards.

    I wouldn't mind if this game wasn't such a step back Shards from a UI perspective. There's not even any quests. This game went from an MMO to a boring survival game.

    Please give me a refund too!

    So change the UI back with your boring Lua scripts, add a bunch of quests with your boring lua.
    You know full well you have full control and the ability to modify what behavior you want.
    And theres nothing stopping you working on your custom assets, @Pharaun showed off some nice work above.
    You havent been handed a bunch of GUI tools with toggle options to enable/disable what you want. but LoA/Shards was never sold as that. With great power comes a learning curve.
  • They went from small Shards Online to large Legends of Aria. A large world will be more successful as a product. It was a good thing the release was delayed because a larger world will pull in more people. The private worlds depend on a successful vanilla world.

    They have had tremendous progress developing the game over the years. I always had the feeling something special is cooking with this game. Let's give Citadel the final push over the finish line.

  • MichelliaMichellia Ottawa, Ontario
    edited April 2
    Citadel just keep doing the work you doing, I can wait and many others. The [fluffy bunnies] if then can do better let them.

    Thumbs up to Citadel

    [Edited by mod: I'm trying to steer us away from namecalling, however benign. Thanks for understanding -- SMW]
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