Congrat on the griefers

MichelliaMichellia Ottawa, Ontario
Who ever you were with 10 to one yesterday.
you must feel wonderful to come out of that fight alive.
Must have been really close battle.
Bet a few of you must have Sh*t in your armour.

Well take care, she quit.

PVP is fine, griefing is not.
Another one bites the dust....
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Comments

  • Being killed by 10 players in PvP does not automatically constitute griefing. Sure, it can be unpleasant but that's PvP for ya.

    Unless there's more to the story?
  • InfernoInferno Devils Of Kimone
    Wow, quitting over one time being killed? You do realize that theres nothing in this game that isnt easy to replace right? I mean dying is no biggie really.... do you have any friends? Guildies? anyone that could come help avenge you? Man, this is what happens when every kid gets a trophy even if they lose! Truly get some poor sports.
  • dont leave town with anything your not willing to lose, will agree that 10 man gank squads are cowards in any game
  • gwarthamgwartham Devils of Kimone
    Just let these types go.

    It sucks, but we are all going to have to face the facts that this game isn't going to cater to everyone, and most of us wouldn't want to play it if it did.

    While I think its kinda derp and counter productive to rock a crew of 10+ people in such a small game, its gonna happen, and probably get worse come steam release.

  • Yeah it's lame when it happens, but the risk and tension is part of what makes games like this and UO special. And fact of the matter is, while just about everyone who plays will be pk'd, you won't see huge groups like this singling out individual players (without reason) on a regular basis.
  • TalizzarTalizzar Colorado
    What the OP did is just what griefers want. Don't let them taste your tears. Just move on. This post does nothing butt inspire them, if that is what it was, which it probably wasn't. This is testing deal with a group mowing you down. It happens and will happen again.
  • gwartham said:

    Just let these types go.

    It sucks, but we are all going to have to face the facts that this game isn't going to cater to everyone, and most of us wouldn't want to play it if it did.

    +1
  • MichelliaMichellia Ottawa, Ontario
    Not easy to replace, took over two weeks to make plate armour. Because rate is so low to succeed, but that not being the point,
    when you need 10 to kill one then its griefing. If any tried one on one they would loose. they proved that by needing 10 to one to win.

    Bullies are bullies.....
  • gwarthamgwartham Devils of Kimone
    edited March 6
    Michellia said:

    Not easy to replace, took over two weeks to make plate armour. Because rate is so low to succeed, but that not being the point,
    when you need 10 to kill one then its griefing. If any tried one on one they would loose. they proved that by needing 10 to one to win.

    Bullies are bullies.....

    A. One can crank out plate by the boatloads, your doing something wrong.

    B. They didn't need 10 to kill 1. I really doubt they were like oh its thats Michellia, lets go get em, but lets take 10 to be safe! Nah you got caught in a bad situation, and while you call it griefing, its really not.

    I mean what changes do you propose to counter this?
  • beater07beater07 America
    I can tell you the changes she wants but then we'd be discussing a fully pve game. I've hashed out with her before and there is no winning. Some people cannot separate PVP and griefing, it's like some concept that exceeds their brain compacity to understand. Basically their thinking is, if someone affects me negatively without my consent = griefing.
  • RelsanctRelsanct Costa Rica
    Bad luck, in the wrong place at the wrong time. I would´t consider this griefing though. Griefing is when someone is out to make someone else have a bad time or otherwise trolling. This group was probably on their way somewhere and you just got rolled on the way through. No way to ever avoid this unless you take hiding and use it literally all the time.
  • MichelliaMichellia Ottawa, Ontario

    Bullies are bullies.....
    beater07 said:

    I can tell you the changes she wants but then we'd be discussing a fully pve game. I've hashed out with her before and there is no winning. Some people cannot separate PVP and griefing, it's like some concept that exceeds their brain compacity to understand. Basically their thinking is, if someone affects me negatively without my consent = griefing.

    When its 10 to one that is not pvp, I tried to explain this to you before but you do not understand.
    If there is no challenge then its no pvp, it's griefing, ganking, whatever you can understand.
  • edited March 6
    Michellia said:

    ...
    If there is no challenge then its no pvp, it's griefing, ganking, whatever you can understand.

    When that used to happen to me, I'd tell my team in voice that I got "steam-rolled." lol
  • RelsanctRelsanct Costa Rica
    Michellia said:


    Bullies are bullies.....

    beater07 said:

    I can tell you the changes she wants but then we'd be discussing a fully pve game. I've hashed out with her before and there is no winning. Some people cannot separate PVP and griefing, it's like some concept that exceeds their brain compacity to understand. Basically their thinking is, if someone affects me negatively without my consent = griefing.

    When its 10 to one that is not pvp, I tried to explain this to you before but you do not understand.
    If there is no challenge then its no pvp, it's griefing, ganking, whatever you can understand.
    This is not much different than simply bad luck in any game. Take a FPS for example. Typically very balanced 1v1, however if you go into the wrong room and then find yourself in a 3v1 situation, you are going to get rolled, bad. It is bad luck, maybe not knowing exactly where you are on the map in a high traffic area and you got caught. One day you will probably be rolling with a large group and smash some poor unlucky victim yoruself.
  • 10 to 1 is pvp it's called ganking. It's a form of pvp whether it's challenging or not it is still pvp. Something carebears have a hard time accepting.
  • beater07beater07 America
    Michellia,

    Killing the banker everyday all day so you cannot bank is griefing.

    Whining about getting killed in a PVP game is griefing.

    You getting killed once by 10 people one day is called PVP.

    PVP has nothing to do with being a fair fight.

    Get smart or get killed.

    You've once again proven that you have no idea what the difference is between PVP and griefing and this is why you should avoid official server and find some safe place community server to skip around in.



  • SachaSacha [Reino de Aldor]
    edited March 7
    Yes, that's just PVP. It really doesn't matter if it's 10vs1 or 1vs1 (maybe that one is ten times better than the other ten players).
    If I'm a bandit lurking on the roads to rob travellers I ain't fighting 1vs1, I wanna be sure I win...
    But once the community finds out about a bandit and where his house is, we don't have a game mechanic to allow the blue players group together and go set his house on fire...
  • YorlikYorlik www.arcanima.org
    Biggest whiners, moaners and trolls on these forums have
    always been a certain type of very loud PVP proponents.
    It's been so for many months now.

    Dunno why it is so - maybe PvP just tends to attract more people
    who want to taste the drug of dominating others as cheap as possible
    or whatever.

    The observation is, that PvP seems to attract toxicity,
    maybe because it's about acting our aggressive traits.

    Not saying PvP per se is bad or all PvPers are bad people, totally not.

    But there is an association. I wished the decent portion of PvP people
    would do more to separate PvP from Griefing and make clear where the
    boundaries between being a PvPer or just being a Dickhead are.
  • InfernoInferno Devils Of Kimone
    edited March 7
    Yorlik said:

    Biggest whiners, moaners and trolls on these forums have
    always been a certain type of very loud PVP proponents.
    It's been so for many months now.

    Dunno why it is so - maybe PvP just tends to attract more people
    who want to taste the drug of dominating others as cheap as possible
    or whatever.

    The observation is, that PvP seems to attract toxicity,
    maybe because it's about acting our aggressive traits.

    Not saying PvP per se is bad or all PvPers are bad people, totally not.

    But there is an association. I wished the decent portion of PvP people
    would do more to separate PvP from Griefing and make clear where the
    boundaries between being a PvPer or just being a Dickhead are.

    I would argue the word griefing is thrown around like candy now days. Unfortunately this is the new society/game norm. Part of the reason why there has been pretty much 0 good sandbox MMOS in years. Thank god for legends of Aria, however, lets hope they dont cave and ruin what makes this game potentially so great!

    Getting killed by a pack of reds is no Griefing, getting res killed few times is NOT griefing. Now if someone is camping you 24/7 7 days a week and you cant log in without dying then i think you may have an argument for griefing. However, this case would be rare if not impossible due to game mechanics. I mean unless you just keep rezzing and going back to your body. Just write your lost items off and move on, unless you want a fight that is. In that case grab some guildies/friends and seek revenge! Option 2 with guildies and friends is the better IMO.
  • Michellia said:


    Bullies are bullies.....

    beater07 said:

    I can tell you the changes she wants but then we'd be discussing a fully pve game. I've hashed out with her before and there is no winning. Some people cannot separate PVP and griefing, it's like some concept that exceeds their brain compacity to understand. Basically their thinking is, if someone affects me negatively without my consent = griefing.

    When its 10 to one that is not pvp, I tried to explain this to you before but you do not understand.
    If there is no challenge then its no pvp, it's griefing, ganking, whatever you can understand.
    Yes, it is griefing. You are 100% correct. There are games though that will only allow you to PvP in *fair* fights. This is not that game though. I can tell you that some players (like me) do not go red, and do not seek opportunities to grief other players. However, I want to play games like this for the pure adrenaline rush. I played UO for several years, pre and post trammel and the only memories that remain with me to this day are those times I was jumped by other players who tried to kill me, and failed.

    I also understand that there are times where you don't want that risk. You want to spend some time in the game where you are doing things in a relatively peaceful environment. I know sometimes I do. When that occurs, I stick in the safe zones where I don't have to really pay all that much attention.

    I'd encourage to adopt the same approach.
  • beater07beater07 America
    edited March 9
    So playing the game as it is designed to be played is griefing.... Makes total sense.

    Bunch of [fluffy bunnies] here I guess.

    Getting killed without your consent IS NOT GRIEFING in a PVP enabled game. If it was, the developers would remove the ability to attack someone else without consent from the game..... How is this so hard of a concept to understand?

    This is like me saying that anyone who is attacking npc monsters instead of players are participating in griefing.

    Don't play a PVP game if you hate PVP with such a passion you refer it to griefing when you get killed though the games supported and intended functionality.

    [Note from your moderator: Can't call people names on the forums. Carry on. - SMW]
  • GaiusGaius 'Round the outside
    I'm very curious to see what how CS implements inter-guild warfare, and how they're going to handle non-aligned reds. Expecting great things.
  • Well, 10 people rolling through indeed sucks, esp when you and your friend just accomplished making plate armor for the first time and wanted to go out to see how awesome it felt to wear it in PvE from what it sounds like. Had a somewhat similar situation myself, except me and a friend lost "full-plate" yeah felt a little salty, just because of the circumstance, but just need to realize that the shit can hit the fan at anytime in the "unprotected" zones. There is a risk reward when it comes to this type of game. We knew there was a chance we would just get jumped and lose it all, but we were fine with that and dealt with the risk if it were to happen.

    If you and your friend were to keep pushing into crafting, those plate sets won't mean anything anymore when you lose them cause you know later on you'll be able to make them quite easily as you progress further in blacksmithing (So when you get jumped and die it won't mean much anyway, you'll just lose what you had on you from farming, etc.) Also keep in mind if you can find the right people you can easily have those crafted for you for a small amount of gold which takes no time at all atm to get.

    Hope you and your friend stick around :)

  • i smell a trammel facet coming...
  • TalonTalon Pacific Coast
    Ifritz said:

    i smell a trammel facet coming...

    maybe a pvp switch you can turn on or off with a timer embedded.
  • InfernoInferno Devils Of Kimone
    Talon said:

    Ifritz said:

    i smell a trammel facet coming...

    maybe a pvp switch you can turn on or off with a timer embedded.
    please no. There is already a switch mechanism called safe zones.
  • gwarthamgwartham Devils of Kimone
    edited March 8
    This type of game will ALWAYS be a niche game. This game is never gonna rival a game like wow, the devs know it, and they have designed it knowing this.

    Grow up, stop acting so self entitled in that you believe a game should cater or make changes based on YOU.

    So someone quit, so what? Its gonna happen no matter what.

    Play the game, adapt, and at the end of the day, if you still don't like it, just stop playing it.

    This game at least you a option. Don't like the game as its made? Make your own server with your own ruleset, run it up the flagpole, and see if anyone else salutes it.

    I would suggest at least letting the devs at least finish the game before making any final decisions, its gonna be a bumpy road ahead, but a real gem of a game or at the very least a system in order to make your own type of game may lay at the end of said road.
  • XinnosukeXinnosuke United States
    Ifritz said:

    i smell a trammel facet coming...

    Are you kidding? CS is too stubborn to even add a map marker to the game. Do you really think they will cave on their current vision of "healthy PvE and PvP environment"?

    I'm waiting for news on PvE improvements, and news on a player-run PvE-only server with PvP arenas. Until then, I'll just keep "playing" the forums and see the decisions the developers of this game make.

    I don't want to spend $30 on a game I know I won't enjoy until it has the features I can enjoy. Then I can bring some of my friends into the game and we can play without worrying about dumb BS like randomly getting PKed and looted just for exploring higher zones. I don't want a repeat of Runescape wilds or UO Felucca, lol.
    gwartham said:

    This type of game will ALWAYS be a niche game. This game is never gonna rival a game like wow, the devs know it, and they have designed it knowing this.

    Niche game typically means lower population, since the game revolves around a niche that only a select amount of people will enjoy.

    Lower population combined with a Sandbox game is a recipe for disaster. Sandboxes revolve around player interactions and player-run economies. If there are hardly any players to run these things, the game effectively dies.

    My predictions of what this game will experience:

    - 500,000 users hear about a new game like UO that costs $30. Since it is not free to play, and since the cost is higher than what most people would pay just to try out a game, only a small percentage of these people will hold interest in investing towards the game. Game genre/niche will also cause lower interest (less than 5%, and I'm being generous)
    - Initial swarm of UO players combined with players of later generation MMOs join - estimated 20,000 copies sold (20,000 players, basically).
    - Immediate drop-off of players due to lack of user-friendly implementations in the game and high competition for resources. Also factoring in people who buy the game, but never actually play it for more than 2 hours (8,000 players remaining).
    - Some of the players who stick around like the ruleset of a player-run server(s) more than the main one (5,000 players remaining on main server(s), 3,000 migrate to player-run servers)
    - Some new patch comes out that caters to players outside of the niche, but pisses off veterans (6,000 players remaining on main servers, 4,000 on player-run servers)
    - Time goes on and people lose interest and move on to a new game (3500 players remaining on main servers, 1500 on player-run servers). Population continues to self-cannibalize over whatever the current issues are. Getting new players is harder than retaining current users.
    - Process of new update accompanied by new/returning players with the update, and then fall-off period due to veterans losing interest once the updates are fully explored repeats. It still ends in a net negative from before, or if there is a gain the gain is very marginal.

    These are extremely generous guesses. They could just as easily be 30% of what I'm guessing, or less. There seems to always be a trend with niche games where there's a barrier of entry, fall-off and then self-cannibalization of the population. Adding the factor of user-friendliness only makes the process worse in this case.

    Hopefully these guesses are wrong and the game will do well, but given the choices CS have been making, I don't think I'm wrong.
  • All the different player run servers will have different rule sets. Some will be PVP focused. Some will be PVE only. This is beta. What is the problem?
  • TalonTalon Pacific Coast
    My predictions of what this game will experience:

    - 500,000 users hear about a new game like UO that costs $30. Since it is not free to play, and since the cost is higher than what most people would pay just to try out a game, only a small percentage of these people will hold interest in investing towards the game. Game genre/niche will also cause lower interest (less than 5%, and I'm being generous)
    - Initial swarm of UO players combined with players of later generation MMOs join - estimated 20,000 copies sold (20,000 players, basically).
    - Immediate drop-off of players due to lack of user-friendly implementations in the game and high competition for resources. Also factoring in people who buy the game, but never actually play it for more than 2 hours (8,000 players remaining).
    - Some of the players who stick around like the ruleset of a player-run server(s) more than the main one (5,000 players remaining on main server(s), 3,000 migrate to player-run servers)
    - Some new patch comes out that caters to players outside of the niche, but pisses off veterans (6,000 players remaining on main servers, 4,000 on player-run servers)
    - Time goes on and people lose interest and move on to a new game (3500 players remaining on main servers, 1500 on player-run servers). Population continues to self-cannibalize over whatever the current issues are. Getting new players is harder than retaining current users.
    - Process of new update accompanied by new/returning players with the update, and then fall-off period due to veterans losing interest once the updates are fully explored repeats. It still ends in a net negative from before, or if there is a gain the gain is very marginal.

    These are extremely generous guesses. They could just as easily be 30% of what I'm guessing, or less. There seems to always be a trend with niche games where there's a barrier of entry, fall-off and then self-cannibalization of the population. Adding the factor of user-friendliness only makes the process worse in this case.

    Hopefully these guesses are wrong and the game will do well, but given the choices CS have been making, I don't think I'm wrong.
    And then to generate interest and maintain a stable funding stream they introduce a PVE only official shard. - which leaves the PVP shard with the sounds of crickets.
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