Bring back runes/runebooks!

Yes, I know the ultimate goal is to make the world seem large by preventing people from being able to mark runes in various locations and having the freedom to port/recall to them at their convinence... have you ever considered limiting the amount of times one can cast these spells within a certain time frame? I think you can still get that big world immersion by adding a cooldown to such spells. For example, making it so recall can only be casted every 10 minutes and port can only be casted every 30. As the game grows so will the size of world which will make this timer more and more effective.
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Comments

  • VolkerVolker Hell on Earth
    edited November 13
    They did bring it to the 5040 community Server Legends of Ultima - which is basically a total UO conversion.

    They also redid the whole skills system, so it´s totally doable.

    Having ppl run around for 15-30 Minutes to gather up and get to the Dungeon/Area of Interest is immersion for like 10 times, after that it simply is just tedious and annoying.

    NOT having Recall/Mark mechanics in a game inspired so heavily by UO is kind of a no-go.

    I do understand the notion, they try to force players to explore the world. Forcing a player to do anything is usually bad design.

    But this rune based travel system is the BEST the MMO world has ever seen. Not doing it, is basically Blizzard introducing flight mounts, just to remove the ability to fly in the game later on because they wanted to make sure, everybody paid their respects to every pixel in the world when traveling on foot/normal mounts.

    I do however think there should be some restrictions, like that you cannot mark/port to Boss areas (Dragons Den) or into Dungeons.

    I do think you should be able to port OUT of a dungeon.

    Except when you PK ed someone. Nah that´s not anti PK, but PvP players usually talk about Risk vs Reward.
    Usually the player that jumps another one that already is engaged with monsters has no risk at all in killing and looting him.

    So it´s a natural thing they shouldn´t be able to kill, loot and port out. It´s the only way there´s any risk for a pvp/pk player at all.
    (Anybody that disagrees is just a sorry a... griefer and no competetive player)
  • We'll make dungeons no-mark, no-recall soon. Still busy with other things, but it will come.
  • VolkerVolker Hell on Earth
    edited November 13
    Andi said:

    We'll make dungeons no-mark, no-recall soon. Still busy with other things, but it will come.

    Does that include recalling out of them as well?

    Edit: Maybe the question seems a bit off because you already said no-recall, but that could just be a protection against pre-marked runes.

    So still, do we have to run to the entrance every time? (See my suggestion for porting out restriction only upon crimes)
  • GrungeGrunge Mountains
    Andi said:

    We'll make dungeons no-mark, no-recall soon. Still busy with other things, but it will come.

    Very happy to read that!
    Thanks guys, and keep the good job!
  • LoULoU Legends of Ultima
    We'd like you to be able to recall out, but not in :)
  • VolkerVolker Hell on Earth
    LoU said:

    We'd like you to be able to recall out, but not in :)

    That sounds great.
  • LoULoU Legends of Ultima
    Done, see #patch_notes on our Discord
  • You cross paths less often with other players when there’s fast travel. I played UO for years and loved being able to recall everywhere but it turns the gaps in the map (the in between places) useless.

    They made it possible to group up with the bind portal spell so if you’re smart enough you can actually port your group around the map.

    I think there’s more potential for the game if they leave out runebooks and start regionalizing resources around the map (like how blightwood is). It gives a sense of territory control and creates organic paths of travel where players collide.

    I was a huge supporter of all forms of instant travel until I played an mmo that took it out completely and it made the world less empty.

    In regards to the UO shard, you shouldn’t be allowed to recall out of the places you can’t recall into. At least that’s the way I remember it.
  • LoULoU Legends of Ultima
    In UO, you could recall out, but not gate out. You couldn't mark any runes inside, so jumping in was also disabled.

    As for the crossing paths point, how I see it, you'll meet people at points of interest, doing things there. Inside dungeons, at mining spots and so on. People who've been running around for 10 minutes are unlikely to stop for socializing, and your group riding to that dungeon at the far end of the map won't talk much, at least not in game, until they're there.

    With runes, you bring people closer together, because the "uptime" of these POIs is higher.

    There's a reason Cove is so popular on our shard. It has player vendors and the rune library one of our players built there. People meet while shopping or when they're on their way to some spot they intend to go from the library. They're much more likely to talk with each other there.
  • Better off just shrinking the map to just mobs 1-100, dungeons 1-10, cove and moonglow and make it all instanced since that’s the picture it paints. The last time I played UO was back in 2009 and you could not recall into or out of any feluccia dungeon or t2a. All my runebooks were to every dungeon or t2a entrance and all those places were connected by a network of portals that made scouting spawns easier to find action and kept players from being able to escape.

    I’ll be the first to say I’d love to play on a throwback UO shard with an actual Britannia map but not on a piecemeal ruleset governed by a select amount of players.

    LoA has a good thing going by limiting fast travel. I doubt we’ll see anything beyond binding to an inn/bedroll especially if they regionalize resources in their final trim.
  • LoULoU Legends of Ultima
    SomeBK said:

    a piecemeal ruleset governed by a select amount of players

    Oh my, that hurt ;)

    While I can understand where you're coming from, in the end, it's a matter of taste. There's no right or wrong there. We provide this option, while others decide not to - options are a GoodThing(TM) in my book.
  • edited November 15
    Having the ability to recall back home makes me MORE likely to explore. I don't have to worry about getting lost, or the long ride back to the house. And I don't have to /stuck to back anywhere either. I play on LoU and I LOVE the rune travel option.
  • @LoU No disrespect man. Everyone has different tastes like you said but I keep very close eye on your shard’s development. I really hope it becomes what I’m looking for.

    Keep up the hard work
  • LoULoU Legends of Ultima
    edited November 16
    We're giving our best to bring the spirit of UO to life on our shard :)
    We've only just started, there's a lot of projects in the works. Mark was huge though, being one of the iconic UO features.
  • MoriensMoriens Australia
    @LoU top job - will try it out when I have time to play games. Logged back on Second Age the other day - It made me appreciate LoA even more. It'll be awesome especially if you can get a bigger map then current LoA stock - A full britannia?!!:smile:

    @SomeBK - For official, totally with you. Its my preference for less teleporting about - makes regional stuff matter more. If you can just teleport to top tier resource and teleport back - devalues them IMHO. And again less player interaction :smile:
  • VolkerVolker Hell on Earth
    Moriens said:

    @LoU top job - will try it out when I have time to play games. Logged back on Second Age the other day - It made me appreciate LoA even more. It'll be awesome especially if you can get a bigger map then current LoA stock - A full britannia?!!:smile:

    @SomeBK - For official, totally with you. Its my preference for less teleporting about - makes regional stuff matter more. If you can just teleport to top tier resource and teleport back - devalues them IMHO. And again less player interaction :smile:

    Remodelling a map might be bit more time consuming than changing a "few" mechanics.

    The current LoA map is comparable to the classic Britannia map in size - and it´s still too small for my taste, even Britannia was.

    -----

    About porting - well even with full ports enable there was much player interaction in classic UO, even PvP wise.
    Sorry i just insinuate that the PvP crowd is usually the side that votes for players not being able to retreat per recall.

    That´s why i suggested recall available for all, except criminals. You want to be top of the tree, then accept the challenge.

    Recalling to resources - running for the 100th time to a mine for 5 minutes of mining and then 30 minutes travel time (slightly exxagerated) gets old really fast.

    Recall/Mark is one of the most iconic and best system of travel ever created. Castrate that too much and you take out the enjoyment of it.
  • MoriensMoriens Australia
    edited November 16
    @Volker not a PvPer here, crafter (miner/smith). If you think about it mining and crafting in general is repetative but if done well it can be quite relaxing. I also am open to the risk of being PKed in an incentavised system where good resources are in PVP zones, there is a thrill involved here and managed risk. I mean they have fast travel through towers for a fee and recall to home city and I personally felt what was in Alpha final was enough. Just an opinion and what I found fun.

    edit: And I guess that's the crux of it - making a game that most people find to be fun would be quite the challenge as our views on fun seem to be at different ends on the topic.
  • LoULoU Legends of Ultima
    We won't castrate runes in any way on Legends. It's an UO fun server. While we're in the process of making it as RP-friendly as possible by giving towns themes, reworking banter, creating NPCs for every zone and so on, we value playability and fun.
  • VolkerVolker Hell on Earth
    Moriens said:

    @Volker not a PvPer here, crafter (miner/smith). If you think about it mining and crafting in general is repetative but if done well it can be quite relaxing. I also am open to the risk of being PKed in an incentavised system where good resources are in PVP zones, there is a thrill involved here and managed risk. I mean they have fast travel through towers for a fee and recall to home city and I personally felt what was in Alpha final was enough. Just an opinion and what I found fun.

    edit: And I guess that's the crux of it - making a game that most people find to be fun would be quite the challenge as our views on fun seem to be at different ends on the topic.

    I am both, but especially when thinking back to UO even the life as a miner was exiting because of the reds roaming around.
    After Trammel i deliberately went back to Felucca resource gathering because with no risk it was boring.

    But i also DID like my ore spot library and the ability to move around quickly.

    The fast travel through the towers sucks. I mean if it at least would just deduct the fee from the bank account, i kinda find it annyoing running back to bank to get those x silver that i don´t have on me because i banked half an hour ago. It´s simply annoying and offers no immersion.

    Also running 10-15 Minutes to a dungeon to either meet up or help some guys... that´s a cool thing on an server event, riding alongside all the other adventurers.
    Not so much outside of it.

    You´re right - tastes are very different and not all servers will be the flavour of everyone.

    That´s where LoA ist just far superior to UO or i dare say any MMO - everybody can just make their blend and be happy.
  • This game has massive potential but it’s far from being superior to UO. I was just sitting back thinking about pure mage dueling in UO vs LOA and recalled so many little nuances and just how fine tuned that magic system really was (especially with 2/6 casting) compared to this garbage poison ruin spam on LOA. I know it’s unfinished so I’ll anxiously await how they expand on it but superior is far from an applicable word
  • Put the Runebooks in for a few versions of the game and see what everyone thinks of them.
  • LoULoU Legends of Ultima
    From what I've heard, Teiravon now has a similar system.

    There you have it.
    Hehe
  • I am playing on Arcanima without and on Legends of Ultima with runes and I can tell that I absolutely hate runebooks. I am just porting from one point of interest to an other, never saw the wilderness and don't know where to buy stuff from people. I asked myself where to place my house because I know some good spots from Arcanima where lots of people come by if I want to run a vendor. On the other side I could place my house in a strategically location for spawns and resources but on Legends of Ultima it just doesn't matter at all. I could place my house in the middle of the water and it wouldn't make a difference. I am voting against runebooks big time.
  • LoU said:

    From what I've heard, Teiravon now has a similar system.

    There you have it.
    Hehe

    Phil said:

    I am playing on Arcanima without and on Legends of Ultima with runes and I can tell that I absolutely hate runebooks. I am just porting from one point of interest to an other, never saw the wilderness and don't know where to buy stuff from people. I asked myself where to place my house because I know some good spots from Arcanima where lots of people come by if I want to run a vendor. On the other side I could place my house in a strategically location for spawns and resources but on Legends of Ultima it just doesn't matter at all. I could place my house in the middle of the water and it wouldn't make a difference. I am voting against runebooks big time.

    My point exactly. The more fast travel you add, the less people cross paths, the less important real estate becomes and the easier it is for a loot holder to escape with the loot (like being able to recall out of a dungeon you can’t recall into). It’s too reminiscent of the days I was in this zerg clan in UO and we’d just put an alt at the despise entrance, the docks and the harrower room and be able to chain run the spawn since no one could even catch us by surprise.
    Fast travel ruins sandbox games. People say it worked in UO but that’s because it had such a vast population. If it didn’t, they would have never added the “no recall out of dungeons/t2a feature” or built the teleport network used to run through every spawn once the population started dying.

    I played a game called darkfall where only the rich could afford to recall around the map because it consumed the rare rune upon each use. It wasn’t until they removed recall runes and bindstone recall that I realized how much we could actually avoid pvp because of them and how they turned my gaming experience into nothing more than an instanced version of what I was playing.

    I’m pretty sure if they have runebooks and more fast travel beyond what’s current, there will also be a player run shard that has that fast travel removed. That’s when we’ll see how much better it actually is to play without fast travel
  • Also, fast travel forces you to compete for resources by playing at the highest level. Pks can literally port around from important spawn to spawn killing any players farming then just log on their pve build to farm those same spawn themselves gaining a stronghold on the market. This discourages players who want to just be pve players because there’s no breathing room. They can’t just stop farming the wolves’ den and go to spiders or spectres because the same small number of elite players can easily port there to kill them. This causes the less skilled players to either not log in as often or search for other servers eventually only leaving the top players complaining about no one ever plays anymore.

    I know all the above will happen because I witnessed it happen whether is was slowly in UO or rapidly in other “sandbox” games
  • I absolutely agree with BK. I saw people on Legends of Ultima just porting into the ogre spawn (very lucrative spawn) kill everyone and port out every 30 minutes. If there have to be runes in the game then I would like the Darkfall system. The runes were that rare you only used them like once a month in very important sieges for tactical reasons. Beside runes, I would like if you could port to a town AND your house. This would give the deed placement an even more important role.
  • The house port and binding at a city is fine because it adds strategy to where you place your house. However, with the right amount of players in a group (3-4) and all having houses in specific locations, you can all just gate each other around the map pking farmers in a loop.

    If you go the rare rune route then all it does is make the tryhards and no lifers that much more powerful than the casuals in terms of wealth to buy and hoard runes.

    You can’t have fast travel in an open world, full loot pvp game. All you do is make the wolves cover more ground and give the sheep less room to breath, which in turn, shits on their gaming experience since they’re forced to compete at the highest level just to try and achieve the gaming or role playing experience they want to achieve.

    Don’t take my word for it though, once the “honeymoon phase” of these fast travel shards wears off, you’ll start to see the shards without fast travel pick up in population.
  • SachaSacha [Reino de Aldor]
    I agree. And the house port should work only for the owner of the house, so you stop that group use for travelling.
  • GrungeGrunge Mountains
    Recall / gate travel rules :)
    As mounted combat without any limitations rules too xD
  • RelsanctRelsanct Costa Rica
    edited November 22
    I feel like the world is actually too small to even justify mark / recall. I also agree with someBK about pks hitting loops. Especially with recall being so long to cast. I remember in UO you usually farm a dungeon for about 3-5 minutes until you see a pk, then recall to another dungeon. Typically you will see that same pk again several times from dungeon to dungeon. Edit: The long recall makes it one sided for the pk, at least with quick recall the casual player could escape a pk if they needed. With a 5+ second recall the casual has basically no chance to escape.

    The biggest thing is getting the world more filled in with things to do, mobs, camps, dungeons and maybe specific bind/recall locations in cities or something. That way you do not have to run as far for action, yet recall does not feel necessary. As it is the mob camps are very few and far between so there is a lot of downtime running location to location and no risk getting to better farming locations.
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